My first experience with an AMI was when I applied for a job with the government and was required to take a physical exam. Would be drowsy at odd times. We have been contacted by major union legal teams regarding this issue. The whole thing is about safety but the FAA has never proven the need for the medicals, especially the third class, it was just randomly instituted one day a long time ago. Due to the self-reporting nature, the chances of getting caught lying on an FAA medical aren't very high. Driving While Impaired (DWI) from alcohol, drugs, texting and exhaustion is obviously a serious problem and every driver self certifies, there is no evidence in the National Traffic Safety Data Base, that accidents caused by preexisting health conditions and the medications used for their treatment, is a major problem. the more you say no the more you are hurting your own self. Fortunately with the airlines, there is always a second pilot capable of flying the plane. Seems ludicrous to me. So why are private pilots singled out for this rediculous harrassment ? Why would I want to go through the unbelievable hassle of explaining myself to a bunch of know-nothing bureaucrats and internal medicine doctors who dont know their ass from their elbow about depression beyond some laughably simplistic characterization of the disorder in a diagnostics manual? , you can navigate the process efficiently. None of the above activities has any significant medical requirement. Before every flight (sometimes several per day) I self qualify myself THAT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY AS PIC!!! Another friend had accompanied me to this testing and he sat across the table from me so that he could see the doctors actions. All content is fact-checked before publication. Students and young pilots just want to fly. The FAA is charged with both promoting aviation and regulating its safety, which can be conflicting responsibilities. Once set up by politicians, these agencies rule by fiat, for which there is no recourse. Needless to say, I have never taken a $100 Hamburger flight. :-) However, since I do really like flying, it does make one avoid looking too hard for problems. But with such a vague statement, you can see why many pilots may unintentionally get themselves into trouble. One of the questions is, have you ever had unconsciousness for any reason.. The FAA has created an atmosphere that not only encourages problems to go unchecked and unreported, but actually makes some of those problems worse by discouraging pilots from addressing them, instead allowing them to fester. The responsibility for a safe flight in my aircraft is mine not the AMES, and most certainly not the FAAs. All pilots know that after taking the physical they self-certify before every flight for the next year or two. The FAA as a whole believes all people should fly if they desire. I wanted to go to the interview with the certificate already in hand so I could have a slight edge. All content on Executive Flyers is rigorously reviewed by experienced and qualified fact-checkers. I have patients with heart disease who are able to continue to fly on special issuance. This is very disturbing to say the least, why bother imposing rules, laws or the like if there is no punishment implemented??? The Aviation Medical is the most expensive physical exam I have ever had and also the least thorough medical exam I have ever had. The other is you tell the FAA about something. Everyone should say they have been dizzy. At least my livelihood doesnt depend on it. Your family and friends consider you more important than any flying you may do. Managing a flight department or want to offer a premium service to your club members or students. Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you. Im not a Senior AME, Ive only been one for a year. I know a pilot who lost enough weight for his sleep apnea to disappear. Emmons wait until you have an episode of situational hypertension or have to see a marriage counselor. They will also review how your current application compares to the ones you have submitted in the past and your driving record. Having people squeal on them? Anonomous, Email me at [emailprotected]. Age is only a number. Hey Guys as you know there is nothing private on the internet. I have been flying with a special issuance 3rd class physical for 15 years. Avoid Medical Certification Delay. If they say that you have a condition that requires you to be grounded, then fill out an 8500-8 medical form. No problem there both were on the approved list (most are). Thus, agencies such as the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Department of Homeland Security (DHS), and Federal Bureau of Identification (FBI), for example, will most likely still be able to see your expunged records. The current system not only encourages dishonesty, it encourages pilots to avoid medical treatment and ignore symptoms. In this case, you can cast doubt on the original diagnosis and attempt to avoid further evaluation. My question is what are they doing in order to get caught. Those marathons at age 26 paid off. Address: PO Box 11 West Liberty, KY 41472, Email: Anthony@ThePilotLawyer.com | Christopher@ThePilotLawyer.com, Office Hours: Mon - Thu, 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM (Eastern Time Zone)Fri, 9:00 AM to 12:00 PM (Eastern Time Zone)Messages left for attorneys after these business hours will be addressed the following business day, during business hours, The Ison Law Firm offers FAA defense nationwide from our offices in Florida and Kentucky, Lakeland Web Design by BrightSky Web Design, Messages left for attorneys after these business hours will be addressed the following business day, during business hours, https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd/, Assessment for Sleep Apnea During Your FAA Medical, FAA Medical Certificate and Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia. Seems arbitrary to me. Most of us fly for recreation and a burning fire within to fly, and the Sport program can be just the ticket. File closed. An applicant who knowingly misrepresents the facts and gets caught can lose his or her pilot license forever and face a fine of up to $250,000, imprisonment for up to five years, or both. I have not had any problems since the bypass, medication is limited to a daily asprin, and have passed all the required tests each year. There are are more decisions that have to be made while driving than flying. There is no rule to disclose insulin dependence for a drivers license and a drivers license, not a medical certificate, is all that is required to fly as a sport pilot. We should not be subjected to this inquisitional questionnaire in the first place. Sorry for apparently differing from the crowd on this, but I think people are nuts if they are lying. Ask your AME to call Oklahoma City and ask to speak with a physician about your case. Have tried the polite calling routine, found they will lie to you, one time the lady told me my SI was approved & mailed 2 days prior, when I finally got it 3 weeks later the post mark date proved they had lied. by Paul Engstrom, Aviation Writer and IFA Member. But a private pilot should be able to fly his Cessna on a weekend without the 3rd class physical. Its not lying its letting them find out, which would probably never happen unless something came out about it. If you have a new medical diagnosis, just received a letter from the FAA or have any concerns about your FAA medical certificate, let us help. However, when it comes to flying without another capable pilot on board.only friends and family..that is another matter. One change I would like in the current procedure for the special issuance is to have my AME rather than those in Oklohoma City decide if I am healthy enough to fly. Port St. Lucie, FL 34988 There are two schools of thought on this issue: 'If you wanna fly, you gotta lie' versus 'honesty is always the best policy.' I asked him why I had to jump through all these hoops if I could get a waiver. The FAA medical process makes it nearly impossible to comply with completely. Medical certificates are designated as first-class, second-class, or third-class. lie if you want, hell find out. If you are stupid and want to wait months for a medical waiver. The fibbing about a little issue. Dont take it personally, those are just the facts on the ground. Headwind vs. Tailwind Whats the Difference? Fess and get a special issuance if necessary. and moved on to checking the no column for the rest of the page. I have just been advised that I can take a NPPL which just requires a certificate of good health from my doctor. Im healthy, but had been to the doc a number of times over the last couple years (or whatever the reporting period was), for inconsequential (for flying) things, so, just reading the med form, as it said I could, I attached a sheet with all those doc visits. I am going to start a letter campaign to ask the people who can make this happen (our elected officials), to get behind it and make it happen quickly. Would I report this or any depression on the 8500-8? If they claim pilots and truck drivers are more important or have a larger impact then ask why the average federal bureaucrat is paid so much. Wiley Post would have never passed a physical. Today with the revolution in the medical diagnostic procedures, and early detection system and timely treatment most airline pilots will qualify and pass the medical exam if the questions were not leading ones. What are the chances you will get caught? A pilot might reason, for example, that the antidepressant he's taken for months hasn't caused any side effects and actually makes him more mentally fit to fly, a safer pilot. Ruin a life a move on. If it makes you feel any better, the doctors office transposed two numbers in the date of the exam. I do not think that there is anybody who does not lie or has not lied at one time or another. Does anyone really believe that this is also not true for pilots and in fact is probably much higher, given the hard working conditions. I started flying and was completely awe-stricken. Such a persons private physician(s) might not think so, but those physician(s) have no say in the matter. I cheeted on a eye test flowen with out a incedent. That process will have to be repeated every year. On a related note, has anyone used an aeromedical service company to help obtain/renew a medical certificate? A separate authorization request is required for each record released to any third party (physician, insurance company, employer, etc.) Perhaps its not actually a lie, maybe just selectively forgetting something. I do not lie on my medical, but would love to be able to fly a 172 using a drivers licence in lieu of a class III medical. I greatly respect him, and therefore, I must meter the information I give him about my own medical problems ungood! If I have a bad cold, or whatever, I will DQ myself for flight, even if such action results in a profound economic penalty for me even though I have a valid First Class Medical. Manage it and you will not have to lie to the FAA, or your AME, or your PCP. Perhaps most problematic is that these medications are disqualifying in and of themselves. I HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY TRIED FOR A MEDICAL OR A LISENSE AS FAR AS THAT GOES. You would be surprised how many complaints FSDOs receive for folks reporting their family members. One is. In my case I have never lied, but if Im at risk of loosing my license for a medical condition that is under control I might do that also. What next, psych eval, cholesterol screen for atherosclerosis, denying smokers because risk of copd exacerbation in unexpected decompression, genetic screening to predict addictive personality or anger tendency? Wreck an 18 wheeler and how much property could you damage and how many people could be injured on a busy interstate? will most definitely warrant deferral by the AME and evaluation of your eligibility for a medical certificate by the FAA. 11-06-2013, 09:45 AM #7 ackattacker. Its a losing game. Coronary heart disease that has been treated or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic or clinically significant, Disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory explanation of the cause, A personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts, Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without a satisfactory explanation of the cause. For pilots with health problems that aren't debilitating but possibly disqualifying, 'fessing up on the application for a third class medical certificate can be a busted-if-you-do, busted-if-you-don't proposition. One of the greatest fears among aspiring and qualified pilots is not being issued or losing their medical certificate. They were like so we dont think you ever had it Passed tests with flying colors. Hes very consciencious, and does not tolerate much in the way of obfuscation, at which he appears to be very good at spotting. I am all in favour of your own doctors certificate of good health. They may only get 3rd class, but they are flying with strict guidelines on preflight accu check, inflight accu check, etc. The flight surgeon is not my friend. Auto correct makes illiterates of us all. Furthermore, any standard of medical concern for pilots is lost because it allows the FAA to turn a blind eye to a medical condition. Every child at some point decides to spin around and around until they are dizzy and fall down. I flew for 16 years in the Air Force with a known heart murmur that I know would preclude me form a civilian 1st class. If I tell the AME about this will I not get my cert that day? And the FAAs restrictions regarding SSRIs effectively make it impossible for use by commercial pilots. The most recent was a year and a half ago. I can understand, in the last 5 years, but most of my things are now 20 years old and I still have to report them-no change. He passed his 3rd class every time. They are issued by states. I do believe all of the ideas youve presented for your post. If successful with testing, you can then make further arguments that you do not have an aeromedically significant medical condition. Commercial pilots, or military pilots or leisure pilots may have lied during their lifetimes, but it is unfair to only single out the pilots. You can be fined up to $250,000 and jailed for five years for lying to the federal government. I got the picture regarding medical, but am concerned about the section regarding legal history. He proceeded to read off the list and after a half dozen items to which I responded No, he said You wouldnt tell me if you had any of these, would you? 6 months and 2 weeks earlier I had one done for a Peace Corps application and sent that in, which would have been good for 2 years. Type 2 diabetes, with oral medication, receiving a special issuance every year, until this last one, when the FAA generously determined my AME could recertify me, annually, for five years. Hmm cant spell worth a darn mostly dumb fingers will that get me rejected??? The real problem was that I also am prescribed anti-diarrhea medication and I take it as needed. You are proceeding at your own risk. I have been asymptomatic for all of those years and I am on no medication. I agree the sport licensse should include at least up to a 152, super cub and all two seat trainers. With over 20,000 hours of real world experience, much of it in Cessna 172s and P210s, Collins wrote about safety, weather and air traffic control from first-hand experience. But it doesnt because the public wouldnt tolerate it. Glider pilots, balloon pilots, and lately sport pilots have proven statistically that there is no reason to have the third class medical at all. Mike F, I agree, Im probably taking the same medication, also works for IBS. In fact he asked me where did I see that I could make that attachment. I was so desperate to lower the volume that I installed a volume control in my own headset so I would not be blasted out of my seat. If you do or don't disclose, that's your business. Crashing airplanes? For Uncle Sam, though, this is anything but a judgment call. They yanked my 3rd class one time, because my personal physician mistyped a statement on his annual letter to the FAA. It does nothing to me other than help prevent the gotta go right NOW urges. What can some shrink tell me about myself that I dont already know? Any law or rule, which is widely viewed by those subject to its enforcement as being unfair, unjust, capricious and arbitrary, because it has no basis in fact, will be disrespected and thus unenforceable. I am working on my private pilot license and I was honest and admitted to an episode of seasonal depression treated with medication (which I no longer require or take). Before I was flying my previous HMO physician told me I was the perfect patient for the insurance company because I hadnt shown up for seven years. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions. When that syndrome is cured, much of what is wrong at FAA will be cured. I am not sure whether the doctors are always correct or what specifically they are looking for to justify one pilot is medically fit while another is unfit. Its not a profession which that college students wake up and decide they want to fly a plane. I refer them to my TMI rule; if it was transient, dont say it. My driving record is perfect, but I have been wondering if the FAA will reject my certificate because of an assault charge that happened five years ago back when I was in highschool. Now do you AMEs see how ridiculousness the form is? I see my doctor at least once a year and sometimes twice he says Im healthy, But I dont trust the FAA. Oh yeah did I mention that I live in an isolated community and that the next mediocre doc is a good four hour drive away? Eat right, excercise, dont smoke, and dont take drugs of any kind. Would the FAA prefer people to auger in because they are depressed rather than get a medication. Ultimately, a FAA medical denial for ADHD is almost never the end of the road for an airman. What Dickie did was tell on someone for lying. If your AME does not spot anything on your physical exam, you have a clean driving record and you have never served in the military, chances are that the FAA will not question the information you submit in MedXPress. I have to do the same stuff to go ice diving. Most get grounded for a year? It explains a lot of stuff that seems ridiculous, like have you ever been unconscious. Simply having an assault on record does not by itself result in denial. Chuck Yeager is the ultimate pilots pilot, yet safely flew his historic breaking the speed of sound flight, with 3 fractured ribs, which certainly impaired his functioning and would have caused most flight surgeons (covering their own asses) to ground Yeager. One correction that I expect an AME to know if you have a condition that you KNOW will result in a medical denial, youre not qualified to fly sport. I lost my career as an airline pilot (major airline) and my life spiraled out of control. They are really convincing and will definitely work. The entire aeromedical FAA staff can go kill themselves for all I care. But, its on the list that would prevent me from passing my medical, so I did not name them. If he admits it and is taking an approved medication, there are a few extra steps but he will maintain his medical. Holy hell! It only came after I got out of the loop and had the hospital send the info straight to OK. You know how we all type up our medical records now, at least they think so. I am a nurse and I see it all of the time. All other patients was sick, so sick but pilots healthy, so healthy. My guess is this would have been confirmed by and EEG. Global misunderstands that Procedure codes, diagnosis codes and pharmacy codes were denied protections under to ACA of 2010. I manage my health daily so as to not have to place them in a position to yank my ticket or otherwise cause me not to self certify. I have to weigh in on this issue. But most of disqualifying conditions can be dealt with, and your AME should help you do that. I hope the FAA box didnt kill more. Theyll wait until a couple of major airline pilots go postal or have a seizure over the threshold and get the front page bold type, then overreact totally inappropriately, and far too late. Some of us just have problems in our lives that are difficult to deal with. Does the FAA really pull your medical permanently? George ED King says: There shouldnt be different standards. Policy For over 50 years, pilots turned to Richard L. Collins for his unique perspective on the challenges and rewards of flying light aircraft. From the details they ask about, you would think you were applying to be an astronaut. In this age of fax machines, email, twitter, facebook, linked in, etc, it is obvious that the FAA is stuck in the past. He as a jet driver and as the sole pilot that might have been a problem during the flight he was scheduled for the next day. It is strongly advised that you seek the opinion and advice of a qualified aviation medical examiner and appropriate medical physician for any medical needs you may have. They will, however, not issue a medical when it is applied for in the future. This in spite of my personal physician and the AMA specifically noting several times that it was a complete non-issue. Why would I deprive myself of the one thing that brings me joy in my life to appease such imbecilic, calamitous assumptions as to the risks I pose to others? RE: Wiley Post. We report, you decipher. Find a Senior AME in your area, call and ask to speak to the AME about your problem. The reader should always consult his or her doctor before discontinuation of any medication. Since I asked to have myself tested for apnea, and found it was a problem, and now use a Constant Positive Air Pressure (CPAP) machine, FAA dogs me annually. I think the medical is about to date as traveling by the hose & buggy. Fly over open country and probably be able to put the plane down in a field if there were trouble but the FAA has a BIG resounding NO for that. But Jordan also said: 'Folks need not be overly concerned about losing their medical certificate, as we end up disqualifying very few when you look at the total number of applicants.'. You and I both know our government never needs to justify their efforts.lol. One had sleep apnea that resolved with weight loss and the other no longer has type 2 diabetes. Look at that, all 4 of them had a diagnosis from the VA. More than anything, this should be pressing the FAA to adjust how they look at mental illness and flying. I am an AME and 4,000 hour pilot. I am 55. Im old, crazy and hard of hearing bit like most experienced pilots I suppose. In our experience, only a small minority of pilots actually try to maliciously conceal significant active medical problems. I tried talking to him about the serious consequences of lying, and every time he goes flying he is putting everyone at risk, but he didnt care. Pilots that I talk to share the same dreams as I do and we all began chasing the dream at an extremely young age. I do medicals on two pilots who went on a vigorous diet and lost weight. PLEASE HELP Ultimately, if you have a condition that you know will result in denial, become a sport pilot. If they can just rid the world of these bothersom pilots then their job will be much easier. If you have a condition which COULD result in a denial then get it checked out because you have a potential medical condition that could be a problem with you living. Ignorance is, therefore, no excuse for not disclosing one of the following conditions: Due to the self-reporting nature, the chances of getting caught lying on an FAA medical arent very high. Requesting Medical Records. We all know that volume of cars on the roads vs. number of planes in the air leads to have to deal with more idiots on the ground. The AME Guide explains that the question pertains to unexplained unconsciousness. Im 64 and working on my PP license. https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/SAFE_PILOT_Testimony_july17.pdf. It came to a point that he was landing one night at a major airport, and on descent he realized that he couldnt see the runway. This is why sometimes it becomes necessary to avoid telling the attending physician more than is necessary least the physician spin the whole condition in different light by making a mountain out of a mole hill, thereby destroying the flying career of the pilot for something that even the physician himself or herself is not sure about. Perhaps its not actually a lie, maybe just selectively forgetting something medical. These hoops if I tell the AME Guide explains that the question pertains unexplained... Are able to fly a plane know there is anybody who does not lie or has lied! By the FAA as a whole believes all people should fly if they that. 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